Elder This is January 15, 2004.  This is Elder Hale interviewing Dan Nelson.  Dan, it's a privilege to interview you today and talk about this wonderful water and just pretty much turn it over to you and we'll just go along with it as it goes.

Dan        Alright.

Elder No ideas other than just to... to examine what you've brought to the world and we'll just take it from there.

Dan        Alright.  Sounds good.  We've got a lot of questions put to me in the past about structured waters that are on the market.  I've done a lot of thinking about that in the last five years.  Give you an example... I pulled pictures off the Internet that were structure in water.  Actually, it's not structure in water.  What they do is they flash-freeze the water.  And what you get is ice crystals.  This may be kind of a lesson in critical thinking.  You have to ask yourself, what am I looking at?

        First of all, nature is capable of the same thing.  You've seen frost that will deposit on a window.  In frost you'll see incredible structure.  Every time it snows, every snowflake has incredible structure.  They're fractals.  There is something about the conditions under which they form.  It has to be something that's property of the water from which they're made.  I've been working with something called spin state in water.  Spin is a property of all particles, fundamental particles of mass.  And in water, the water molecule, spin state is an index of how actively engaged the water molecule is with the vacuum of space around it.  It can either be highly engaged or it can be dead.  They haven't devised a scale which expresses um... It's called the Bio-angstrom scale.  I have read dead water is somewhere in the area of 2,500 to 3,000 bio-angstroms.  The tap water here, which I won't even feed my animals because of all the chlorine and garbage that the city puts in it... that comes out at a respectable 4,500 bio-angstroms.  It's still a very dead water.

        And we've found that water that comes out of aquifers in particular, which at this point it's guess work, but we think it's the pressure that the water has been under in the aquifers that causes the loss of the spin state of water.  When water gets pulled out of solar energy and gets pulled into the atmosphere it becomes energized.  All rainwater comes down at 8,500 bio-angstroms.  They say in order for water to have the right spin state it must have a minimum bio-angstrom rating of 6,500.  Rainwater is a good water to drink.  It depends on the pollutants it picks up on its way down through the atmosphere.  Has it picked up radiation?  Has it picked up hydrocarbon debris?  What's in the atmosphere that the water is going to hold onto as it comes down?  Because it is a very good solvent.  It's got to pick up garbage in the atmosphere.  So rainwater, in terms of spin state, would probably be ideal but the thing is you'd have to filter it.  Or purify it in some way.

Elder Some have suggested that when the water comes in to the piping system itself, because it's going through pipes and that might have something to do with taking the spin off of the water or changing the spin of the water.  Do you feel that's possible?

Dan  We feel that's very possible.  Yea.  A piping system would have the same effect that an aquifer system would have.  An aquifer system is a natural piping system.  And they de-energize water.

        So when somebody shows you photographs taken through a dark-field microscope to begin with... it's my understanding, and I could be incorrect, but I talked to a doctor's assistant, he has a dark-field microscope.  This microscope, let me grab my notes here quickly... a rather expensive instrument.  It does dark-field and right-field and phase contrast.  It sounds like in the phase contrast mode we can go up this far.  Now that's the impression I got from my discussion.  That sounds like awfully high magnification for an optical instrument.  You have to understand that the important thing... one of the important points when you're shopping for a dark-field microscope, they're looking for incredible optics and a very good way of lighting the subject.  A dark-field microscope has to be optically superior and a very bright light source.  So in the dark-field mode it sounded like 8,000 and 10,000 power.

        An electron microscope is 100,000 power.  But with an electron microscope can you see an atom?  So... when you're looking at these structures photographed through a microscope, or a dark-field microscope these microscopic water crystals, composed of conservatively tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, even millions... water molecules.  Right now you're looking at a structure that can't do you any good.  So what they're trying to say is that that structure is indicative of energy that was in the water before it was flash-frozen.  That doesn't tell us what the spin state of the water was.  There is no way of determining from that photograph with the initial spin state of the water.  The spin state of the water will depend on how efficiently your body can absorb the water.  This spin state water is composed, if it's high enough, our Water is 24 million bio-angstroms.  Meaning that virtually every water particle is sub-angstrom size.  In fact, probably isn't a particle in there bigger than .4-nanometer size.

Elder When we're thinking of angstroms as compared to microns I think you can fit a million angstroms inside of a micron.

Dan  Uh huh.

Elder Is that correct?

Dan  Uh huh.  I'm talking about extremely small particles.  A snowflake, even an ice crystal, would be absolutely huge by molecular standards. Our membrane won't accept a particle much bigger than a nanometer.  So all water, even low spin state water, a certain small percentage of that water is composed of angstrom-sized particles.  The higher the spin state, the higher percentage of angstrom-sized particles.  Finally, as the spin state goes higher and higher almost all the water becomes available to the cell to be taken through the membrane.  Our water is the most hydrating water I know of.  And The Water is at a spin state of 24 million bio-angstroms.  It can actually be manipulated between 6 million and 24 million.

Elder        You're talking about millions of bio-angstroms.

Dan  No.  No.  I'm talking about a spin state indicating the percentage of particles in the whole volume of water that are absolutely small enough to go through the cell membrane wall.  That determines the efficiency of the hydrating properties of The Water.  If you've got larger particles of water sticking behind in the total volume of water, they will lower the efficiency of the cell membrane wall to absorb that water efficiently.

Elder How many bio-angstroms did you say that's normal for tap water?

Dan  Well, in my case, in the case of my tap water here we're 4,500 bio-angstroms.

Elder 4,500 bio-angstroms.

Dan  4,500 bio-angstroms.

Elder And you're talking about millions and hundreds of millions of bio-angstroms with The Water?

Dan  I'm talking about millions.

Elder        Millions.

Dan  Bio-angstroms.

Elder Okay.

Dan        Probably the outside limit to water in terms of hydration and absorption is 24,000,000 bio-angstroms and to get water to that state it must have a fair amount of heavy hydrogen in it.  All water has some deuterium and some tritium.  All water.  No matter what the spin state.  All the waters of the world have some deuterium.  Some waters are very, very rich in deuterium.  Deuterium-rich waters seem to be coming out of the magma chambers. The richest source of deuterium oxide in the world comes out of a crack in the Indian Ocean.  It's coming out of a magma chamber.  Volcanic rock is the best source of heavy hydrogen that we know of on this planet.

Elder So a place that's like on a caldera, like Yellowstone Park, that would be a very rich source of those elements.

Dan        That's correct.  Just by the very nature of the area there is an increased content of deuterium.

Elder What else besides the high spin state in The Water gives it a special quality?

Dan  Well, water is capable of having information encoded in it.  And holding latent energy.

Elder The holographic memory that water has?

Dan  Yes, they say that water has a memory.  I'm not sure as a physicist that's an extremely expressive or accurate term.  But for the sake of most discussions, I think it's adequate to use the word memory.  High-quantum state water will hold great amounts of information.  We know that information is held right on into the proton of the atom.  Water is very efficient at this.  Like having a liquid form of a digital camera.  Almost limitless resolution.

Elder        Getting back to the crystals in the ice crystals.  As you brought up, there are those that have made some points about certain waters and they're trying to show the differences of these different waves or frequencies or information by showing different ice crystal forms.

Dan  Uh huh.  Water condenses into different structures, actual fractal structures, that's what a snowflake is.  A fractal pattern.  It's indicative of the fact that the water was in a relatively high spin state to begin with.  Rainwater, water that has been evaporated into the atmosphere by solar energy is in a higher spin state.  It's got higher energy to begin with than water that would be on the surface.  Altered waters that they're using to flash-freeze and show a pattern are also in a slightly higher spin state than the average water.  It's not saying all these waters are bad, in fact, they're good to drink.  They're good waters.  They're more absorbable than most water that comes from... say, is pumped out from an aquifer.  These people have found sources of water that are inherently in a higher spin state.  .

        For instance, I've got well water that comes out of an aquifer about 400 feet down.  And it's in a higher spin state than my city water.  It's at 5,000 bio-angstroms.  When I first started putting my city water under my laser I could only take it up to 1.8 million bio-angstroms.  When I got a hold of my friend's water, which is 500 bio-angstroms higher, I could take it to 2.4 million bio-angstroms.  Usually I'll run into water that is somewhere around 5,500 or 6,000.  So I pretty much have to jump to rain water to get one that's higher than 6,500.

Elder I know you've seen probably some of these websites, Dan, that have pictures of crystals and they associate words or different emotional thoughts, prayer, different things with these different crystalline forms.  Do you think there is some significance to those shapes and forms that would change the crystalline structure or... I mean, I picture a frozen...

Dan  Okay.

Elder In the case of water, I can picture thousands of those guys in there.  There'd have to be thousands of them identical before there could be any real significant empirical evidence that would support that, wouldn't you think?

Dan  Yeah, you're correct.  All these waters and all these structures they're photographing does tell us that water is susceptible to certain energies, including scalar energy.  It's structurally susceptible to the energy of consciousness.  That doesn't mean that it produces water that is equivalent to the water I've been experimenting with.  It probably produces water that's more absorbent. So, what you want to look at are the testimonials.  People are getting amazing results on those waters.  You know why that is?  It's because they're so dehydrated to begin with.  The human body finds water to be a critical component and then gets a hold of water that's much more absorbable... it's going to respond.  I'm finding a lot of the conditions I'm running into in people are attributable to dehydration.  And when people start getting water that makes it possible for them to begin hydrating, you'll get amazing results.  Look at Batmanghelidj's book, "Your Body's Many Cries For Water."  The results he's getting just giving people lower spin state water are indicative of how vitally important water is and how dehydrated everybody is. Dehydration can lead to a whole spectrum of symptoms.

Elder        We've heard also reports of people that create water and they claim that the benefit is because of the high electron content and it's not so much... they claim to have a dodecahedron-shaped cluster, water molecule cluster, that is not necessarily small but because of the electron content in that form, shape, which most water doesn't... it's a random structure in most of the water whereas this has a structure to it and a crystalline-shaped structure, which I believe is important with water because it does have a crystalline shape, but they claim that the electrons have something to do with giving health benefits to it.  Or that it changes water that it comes in contact with. What do you think about that?

Dan  Go back to the process of ionizing water so that you can manipulate the pH of water.  What are you doing with electrical current?  You're stripping electrons.  When you're ionizing water you're creating free electrons.  What's left is a fraction of water called a hydroxyl ion which is a very beneficial water to drink if it has a pH of somewhere around 8.5.  Acid water is never a good drinking water.  We dump the acid water out.  In other words, we're taking the free electron ion in the water and getting rid of it.  That's not the water you'd want to drink.

Elder        Right.  So... if it has an alkaline pH, then it's going to have a beneficial effect and it's good for the body.

Dan        Right.  Yeah, so you want to drink water that has a predominance of hydroxyl ions.

Elder I've also seen, Dan, that people seek higher consciousness with diatomic elixirs, specifically related to what is termed ORME, ORMUS or M-STATE elements.  I know. I've experienced some of those elixirs.

Dan  Well, to begin with... it's never been conclusively proven that those elements are monatomic.  There's debate going on.  They don't know whether they're monatomic or diatomic.  My personal feeling is this and the research my partner and I have done over the years... we discovered that a human being's brain will either operate off of, not diatomic, but monatomic rhodium or monatomic iridium.  You won't have a combination of the two.  You'll either be exclusively a rhodium brain or an iridium brain.  And there is no advantage of one type of brain over the other.  I don't know why there is a distinction in people, why some people have a rhodium versus an iridium brain.  One brain type is more than dominant than the other.  The iridium brains are far more common to find than rhodium brains.  When we analyze people with iridium brains, the brain has nodes or clusters of monatomic iridium.

        This is in harmony with work that David Hudson did.  In my view the brain is actually hyper-dimensional in nature.  I believe that the reason why the nervous system, the energy in the nervous system travels near the speed of sound is because of  super-conduction.  Super-conduction is necessary because of the kind of energy, or the form of informational energy that the human brain is interfacing with.  My research along with recent information published by the American Psychiatric Association is beginning to realize that consciousness occurs in a field.  The field of consciousness is actually the storage depot for information.  It's a field that is informationally encoded.  The brain is just there to download that information. This is an interpretive process; there is no way you and I would recognize the form in which that information is encoded.

Elder So the brain is important in that aspect, but the whole body, and maybe just when we look at not only just the whole body as having mind, because I know of instances where people have had virtually little brain tissue, but yet they function just like everybody else.

Dan        Right.

Elder And mostly water in their head.

Dan  In fact, we know the brain is 90-93 percent water. It wouldn't work without all that water in the brain because water in the brain has to be slightly acidic.  That's why the English word "memory" is composed of two Hebrew roots.  "Mem", which is water and "ory" which is light.  Somehow those people realized that the process of recalling information or memory itself had something to do with the reflection of light in some form off the water of the brain.  Memory is water light.  That's no accident.

Elder        We've looked at electrons more recently in our discussion.  We've looked at ORME.  We've looked at different thoughts on consciousness.  A lot of time with the elixirs that I've done before, that had claimed monatomic or diatomic gold or iridium or a combination thereof, they have had an effect on me and other people.  Do you think that's probably largely because we are getting some mineral that we just didn't have before, that we weren't getting in our diet, and therefore, this encouraged these effects.  That people felt like I did of... I could sleep better and had more energy when using that substance or elixir that helped me in that particular instance.

Dan  Okay.  The first thing that I'm going to admit is that I have not had in my possession enough of the so-called ORMUS elements or the products that contain them.

Elder Or m-state.

Dan  Or m-state elements - same thing as ORMUS elements.

Elder        Right.

Dan  They basically all mean the same thing.  But you know, technically, if you call something an orbitally rearranged monatomic element [ORME] and it's not monatomic but diatomic, that's technically incorrect you know.  Some people hesitate to refer to them as ORMUS.

Elder I did have some effects when I started off with just some monatomic mineral water or specific ORME's like rhodium, iridium and indium, and it helped me out considerably.  When we're looking at The Water though, we're not necessarily looking at a structure that is measurable in specific parts per million and that sort of thing.  We're talking about an energy of those elements.

Dan  Yeah.  We're talking about those elements being there in the energetic state or being there as there waveform analogue.  Water has memory capabilities.  Water is capable of holding onto information.  Water is the perfect medium for nutrient minerals in the energetic state.  If you were to get into a study of how the natural world uses water, you would discover that you can't make gold, you can't make platinum, and you can't make palladium unless you have water.  There have to be a number of different waves present in the water.  It's what we call in physics the super-positioning of waves.  If you have the right complement of waves gold will literally form in water.  I know.  I've seen it.  We've actually done it.  We've made gold in water.  We've made platinum.  We've made palladium.

Elder Can we metaphorically say that you've "grown" it in water?

Dan  Yes, grown it in water.

Elder        Grown it in water!

Dan  From nothing but waveforms.

Elder Okay.

Dan  There was nothing but frequencies of a certain number of elements and it had to be the frequency of a particular isotope of those elements.  For instance, iron is involved in the production of gold.  It's also involved in the production of platinum and palladium.  But it's a pre-metallic isotope.  It's an unstable isotope that's very comfortable existing in water as its waveform analog.  There are isotopes of iron obviously that can never exist as a waveform analog in water.  They're metallic.

Elder So I would be incorrect in stating that there are measurable unstable isotopes; there are isotopes that the body utilizes that are actually in an energetic form of a particular unstable isotope.

Dan        Elder, I defy you to find... a single particle of this particular isotope of.  It's not in there as a particle.  It's in there as a wave.  As energy.  This is where you lose most people.  I'm talking about making gold.  That's where your geologists, your geophysicists and your mining engineers will turn their backs and walk away.  Their education does not prepare them for this approach.

Elder Well, let's talk about making babies, Dan.

Dan  When a human being is conceived, if it wasn't for the principles of chaos theory and the principle of holography, you couldn't replicate a human being.  We think at a very shallow level that when a human is conceived we're putting strands of DNA together.  No.  We're mixing complex fields, fields full of information.  Depending on the content of that information, that individual is going to be pretty much determined by what's in the field, not what's in the DNA.  That's why when Dr. Robert O. Becker wrote his landmark book, "The Body Electric," he says something in there that nobody will touch with a ten foot pole.  He says that DNA cannot possibly determine the difference between you and so; I in turn, DNA must have a control mechanism.  It does.  It's controlled by the information in a complex strange attractor fields.  You are a field phenomenon.

Elder So the mother is a template; she has created a field around the egg to be combined with the sperms field?

Dan  Yes, the newly created child has a unique field associated with it.

Elder Is the new child combined fields or templates?

Dan  Yes, because the process is holographic in nature.  If you understand the principle of the hologram... if I make a hologram on a piece of film, I cut a little tiny piece of that film from anywhere, the whole picture will be in that piece of film.  The difference is the intensity won't be there.  Taken from a corner, from the center, from near the edge, it doesn't matter; the picture is in every piece of it.  You and I are a hologram.  Let's say that Elder cuts his finger, and damages cells, you'll also damage the field around the cells but because he's a hologram in nature that field damage will go into the whole field.  So as time goes on Elder and every human being becomes an accumulation of field damage. I call these blocking fields.  The challenge is this... with nutrients we've been trying to get good things into the body.  The greatest need is to take damage out of the body.  That is, out of the field. Something needs to act as a two-way membrane so to speak, not only to put good nutrient information into the body but also to take corrupted information out.  It's like a computer file that's been corrupted.  We're going to have to figure out how to uncorrupt the files.  There's never been a product developed in the history of man that effectively does that.  And I think the only substance or compound in the universe that has the potential is water.  It's no accident that all of biology is dependent on water.

        There are two Rovers on the surface of Mars now that have successfully landed and deployed from their little landing pads and they're going to crawl around on the surface of Mars for months taking pictures, analyzing rocks and soil looking for evidence of water. Everyone recognizes that without water there's no life.  There's a very good reason for that.  Water has capabilities that allow for a number of physical and energetic functions to occur.

        If you have an understanding of say quantum mechanics, if you have an understanding of the aspect of chaos theory, that won Ilya Prigogine a Nobel Prize in 1977, where he looked at complex organisms as what we call dissipative systems, you have to understand the science of dissipative systems and the task that water has in making life possible.  Did you know that Ilya Prigogine's work is conspicuously absent from almost every book written on chaos theory?  Oh yeah, conspicuously absent!  Do you know why?  He basically referred to a new thermodynamics and very few people understand that what he was telling us is that the arrow of time can go either direction.  And if it weren't for the fact that the arrow of time can go forward and backwards, you and I couldn't exist.  This makes possible complexity that would not exist otherwise in biology.  We are dissipative systems.  Therefore, we're given the ability to draw a lot of energy from somewhere to keep us animated.

Elder So we're talking about in the physical plane, the flesh?

Dan        That's right.

Elder So going back to the creation of life itself in the womb. Life process is somewhat alchemical, shall we say, for lack of a better term. Life begins in that cradle of water inside her body where this child is being formed and there's elements possibly being made or synthesized that she's not even eating or she's not ingesting in any way but yet it's being produced in the mother's womb.  Could you comment on that?

Dan  Yes.  Now, for obvious reasons I work with theoretical physics.  There are terms that I inherently tend to shy away from like alchemy and metaphysics.  Metaphysics is like admitting you're in a gray area where it doesn't quite make sense to you.  You know there is a process going on, you know that it produces questions that a scientist wants to get to the bottom of it and understand it.  And it's got to be logical.  There has to be some mathematics to describe it.  It has to be a process whereby you can intellectualize on a rational level.  So, in the womb, yeah, there is some very, very sophisticated hyper-dimensional stuff going on.  What do I mean by that?  Actually, you get back to say the work of Louis Kervran and his work with chickens. He manipulated their diet to remove all the calcium.  They proceeded to lay eggs with shells that had nice integrity.  The shell is calcium based.  He put the calcium back in their diet and took the potassium out of their diet and they couldn't lay an egg.  Similar work has been replicated all over the world.  Somehow the chicken is turning potassium into calcium.  He does not use calcium directly to make the shell of the egg.  It's an indirect process.  For instance, you've heard about the sodium-potassium pump mechanism?  How it works?

Elder No.

Dan        Which of those elements is pumped from the outside inside?  Sodium.  Sodium goes from the outside inside.  Potassium comes out.  The point is, if potassium is only pumped out, how did the potassium get in the cell in the first place?  There is no mechanism for getting potassium into a cell.  It won't pump in to the cell.  So what's happening is when the sodium gets inside the cell, it's being transmuted into potassium that is then pumped out.

Elder So we're basically attempting to describe the transmutation of the elements as opposed to, say, alchemy, or transmutation of energies and waveforms.

Dan        Transmutation, that's a term that raises people's eyebrows! Between you and I and this interview, yes, that's what's going on.  We don't like to think in those terms.  A quantum physicist says, 'Oh boy, how can this be?'  We're not dealing with energy levels high enough.  We can make things happen if we're dealing with a particle atomic accelerator, where we can get millions and billions of electron volts involved.  But at the cellular level we're working with energy levels that are so low, how can transmutation of an element occur?  It does.  The same way that somehow Ponds and Fleischman ran into a cold fusion process that nobody can seem to replicate since. The human body does things on a daily basis that seems to defy all of the laws of physics. It doesn't care about "our" laws of physics.  It's not concerned with those.  We developed those.  The cell didn't develop those.  It doesn't care about them.  It's going to do things that we don't understand whether we like it or not.  And if it didn't do them we wouldn't exist. I mean, by saying that they can't occur; we have just precluded ourselves from a correct understanding of life processes.

Elder Okay.  Well, Dan, I'm sure everybody is wondering at this point what got you on this path of research?

Dan  Well, I've always been somehow involved in health for the last 22 years because of personal health problems and became very interested in how the body works at all levels.  When you begin to develope a somewhat sophisticated understanding then people start coming to you with problems that allopathic medicine doesn't have answers for.  So you take your natural gifts and talents and put them to work.

Dan  And working on hundreds of people since about 1982, I noticed a correlation between the physics and the operation of the human body.  So... as I got further into my own research, I got to the point where in the late '90's I conceived of a plan to build a laser that would send a particle wave backwards in time.  This would be a virtual laser.

Elder A virtual laser?  How does that compare to other lasers?

Dan  Well, a conventional laser produces a phase coherent beam of some conventional electromagnetic visual, electromagnetic energy.  It will be ruby red.  It will be green.  It will be blue from carbon dioxide.  It will be orange.  It will be yellow.  Actually an LED lazes light.  That's laser light.  There are lasers that use solid elements, say crystals, from which we can pump energy.  There are lasers that use mixtures of gases that we pump energy from.  This is not electromagnetic energy.  This is a particle wave of virtual state photons that are actually time-reversed, they're tachyon.  They go faster than the speed of light.  I figured out how to capture them at a specific wavelength.  In this case it would be the near ultraviolet part of the spectrum.  Their oscillation rate and wavelength would be equivalent to the near ultraviolet energy.  And the conventional electromagnetic spectrum.

        So I built this laser and one day I decided I would expose water to the laser beam.  And I succeeded in making the water much wetter.  And I realized that the key to manipulating what we call quantum thermodynamics in water was this laser.  Now, this is not conventional chemical thermodynamics we're manipulating, this is not simply thermo properties.  We're actually turning energy back from the vacuum of space back into the fundamental water particle and engineering it.  As it acquires energy it will literally engineer itself.  I don't engineer the fundamental water particle.  It engineers itself when you pump energy back from vacuum into the... in other words, you're turning the entropy principle around backwards.  You're putting energy back in so you're getting an alteration of water [order?] and arrangement.  If you've got the entropy principle running forward in time, you've got energy trickling out of the system.  It loses water [order?] and arrangement.  It becomes disorganized.  If you can turn that process around you can get it to reorganize.  You can put it into a very high state of organization.  That's what my laser does.  It manipulates quantum thermodynamics and it literally puts energy...if you're talking about conventional thermodynamics and you've got energy trickling out of a closed system, where's that energy going?  It's going into the vacuum of space.  Well, you've got to figure out, how do I turn energy back from the vacuum back into the molecular structure.  The best way I know of is with a... there may be other ways, but a virtual state laser.

Elder And this laser that you're talking about... this is the first laser that you developed to work with The Water?

Dan  Yeah, that's the first laser I developed.  I didn't really develop it to work with water.  Water... that was an accidental discovery.  That was just something that occurred to me on a day when I didn't have much to do.

Elder So you were especially just looking into avenues of possible energy production... energy itself you were looking at producing with the laser?

Dan  I was actually looking at manipulating quantum thermodynamics in other systems.  But none of those systems were water.  I wasn't thinking in terms of water.  But then when I... it occurred to me one day that I could probably put water into a very high molecular spin state with a laser it worked.  Later on I realized that the highest spin state would be imparted to deuterium oxide.  Heavy water.  Water with a lot of deuterium in it.  And tritium.  So when I ran into my partner, Lloyd Mear, I was actually looking for a cheap source of deuterium oxide and somebody thought he might be able to help me out.  So I called him and said I was looking for a cheap source of deuterium oxide.  He wanted to know what I was doing with it so when I told him, he told me about a project he was working on, had been working on for about almost a year at that time and he was manipulating water.  He had figured out how to put energy in water.  He'd actually come to the point where he had made gold nuggets from nothing but energy in water.  But where his project started was with him having a heart attack.

Elder So a health issue kind of started him on a path and you on a path with The Water?

Dan  Well, in his case he was... he's a civil engineer with over 20 years experience in the mining field and what started him thinking differently was a trip to the Yukon.  If you go to the Yukon there is no apparent source for the gold.  Everybody swears that nuggets are broken out of lode deposits.  Well, go to the Yukon. I defy you to find a lode deposit.  There is no explanation for all the gold found in the Yukon.  Virtually no explanation.  They've never found a source.  And Lloyd realized that and then when he worked on a project in northern California it became even more apparent that in this particular location the gold was not being washed in from a lode deposit. There was no lode deposit.  But every year these guys were going into the same section of stream with their little suction dredges and taking out the same, approximately the same quantity of gold nugget.  Every single year.  Lloyd began to realize that the gold was forming in the water.  Water was making the gold.  And how could that happen.  It depends on the geologic structures that are nearby that water is exposed to.  It will pick up certain energies and it's very susceptible to certain energies.  They're there and it's like windows of opportunities.

Elder So in other words, you're saying that the water would flow over a type of mineral structure.

Dan  Or through a mineral structure.

Elder Or through a mineral structure...

Dan  On its way to the surface and pick up an energy.  And when the right complements of energies were there, gold would form.  It would literally precipitate out of the water.  That's the only thing that explains why gold nuggets get below everything else on the bedrock.  It's not because they're heavier.  If I take a 20 pound gold nugget and set it out in my yard it will be there 2,000 years from now.  It won't go anywhere.  It's not going to go sink into the ground because it's heavier anymore than any other heavy object will.  Gold is a precipitant from water.  That's why it gets down there below everything else.  If it has a positive electrical charge or valence it won't have an attraction for itself so you'll get all kinds of flour gold--fine gold.  If it has a negative electrical charge or valence every gold particle is like a magnet--it will attract another gold particle.  That's how nuggets are formed.

Elder Some people... like we were talking about earlier talked about precipitants when they were discussing the ORME and precipitants in the powders and the white gold stuff that they talk about that forms that they couldn't assay until they got a higher or a longer burn on their spectral analysis of the subject.  That's similar when we're talking about precipitants.  They were precipitants of a particular form of the gold with ORME or some of the elixirs that people have used, like I have used.  That's similar?

Dan  It's similar, yeah; nature is not as simple as we'd like it to be.

Elder        Right.

Dan  So for instance, you can find material in the natural world and you'll take it in and you'll assay gold but you cannot get any gold out of it.  I defy you to retrieve the gold.  It's not recoverable.  Because it's not complete.  It's recoverable when you figure out which energies it lacks.  You can even derive an isotope of gold that's far from complete and you can bump that isotope up to Isotope 33, which is complete gold.  Once it's Isotope 33 it can never be anything else.  It's stuck being metallic gold for eternity.  But before then the isotopes can be altered.  They can be moved up and down.

Elder So Lloyd had the background in mining and.

Dan And metallurgy.

Elder And metallurgy.

Dan  Yeah.

Elder And tell us a little bit about your background.

Dan  Well, my background is in physics.  Astrophysics, theoretical physics.  And when I started working with my own health issues over 20 years ago, I started seeing the correlation between what I'd learned in physics and the human body and how it really operates.  This is all... it's not just simple chemistry.  I mean, you know, maybe it would be nice if it were.  But there's too much of the human body that's just simply energetic.  It's like Lloyd's gold problem. The human body is the same way.  It was simple chemistry... a lot of the problems we're still dealing with would have been solved centuries ago.  No, there are still a lot of things we don't understand.  Why?  Because it's all occurring on an energetic level.  On an energetic level in an energetic state.

        And to deal with the body's health problems you understand that the body is made primarily of informational fields.  The body has seven major informational fields.  And in chaos theory these fields would be called strange attractors.  They're mathematical construct in something called phase space.  And we began to realize that the body works off informational codes.  The cells and all the activity in the cells are dependent on information from these fields.  And the information is encoded in a real interesting way.  And we have seven numbers which are codes representing the seven basic fields, strange attractor fields, and we discovered working with humans and animals that the mother has the ability to pull an element that is in our water called promethium.  And by the way, promethium has never been found in the crust of the earth.  Element 61 and Element 43 have never been found.  They just assumed through the process of logic that there must be an element with that many protons in the nucleus.  So they assigned a name for Element 43 and 61, but they never found it.  That's why this is so difficult for some people to deal with mentally.  And on an intellectual basis.  They've never found promethium.  You know why?  Promethium is pretty much only found in its energetic state.  It doesn't like to exist as a physical element that you can weigh, measure and analyze.  It exists in the energetic state and it's the only element that we know of that contains all seven frequencies of the primary frequencies that your seven attractor fields operate off of.

        So in the womb, when a woman is pregnant, she may not have any of the minerals that she really needs to support optimal health and if she doesn't have them she sure can't pass them onto the fetus.  So somehow, somebody or something gave her the ability to pull promethium out of the virtual state and put it into that fetus.  And when that baby is born we'll find it full of promethium and heavy hydrogen.

Elder If it's something that doesn't manifest in a material way, how does one know that promethium is?

Dan        Well...

Elder In these seven aspects...

Dan  In our Water we are delivering all of the elements the human body needs to be healthy.  All the elements that you need to take in on a regular basis are in The Water.  But... the body will only accept certain isotopes of those elements.  Those isotopes are in The Water as their energy analog, as their frequency.  But your body was designed with the ability to take the frequency in water and synthesize its own mineral.  It's a synthesizer.  We talked about that before with the work of Louis Kervran.  The body has the amazing ability to synthesize things from the energetic state into a material state.

Elder So with this information... so far we understand that you've created or tapped into energy with this development of your laser.  Then we understand that you have this ability to give specific information that is carried on this light?

Dan  I can literally take the laser, the particle wave that the laser produces and I can develop a numerical matrix and I can encode it into the laser.  Now the entire field produced by the laser will become fractal in nature.  The whole laser beam is fractal.  And anything that's exposed to it the fractal is superimposed on it... as an energy pattern.  So that information will go into water as a fractal informational pattern.

Elder Over time I understand that you upgraded The Water in different ways and when you would find out a new beneficial waveform?

Dan  Yeah.  When we discovered working on people, which we do all over the nation, we discover what the human body's needs are in the energetic sense, we go to work and figure out if we can address that need in some way and almost invariably you can put it in water.  So The Water got more and more complex, more and more sophisticated.  Became more complete in terms of the body's energetic needs and The Water has gone through a number of transformations.  And it just continually improves.  It's gotten to the point where this could be my own personal testimony... a woman calls her son and me, her six year old son is dying of leukemia.  Now, they've given the allopathic course a shot.  They've done the chemo, they've done all kinds of other extremely powerful drugs and the kid is dying anyway.  So as a last resort, she says, "We might as well try this water we've heard about."  So they drink this water.

        Two and a half months later I get a call and the kid, the doctor says, "I can't find any cancer in his bloodstream.  He's cancer-free."  

Elder This is your testimony of...

Dan  Well, of something...

Elder Of watching, observing what's happened with this young child?

Dan  Yeah.  What his mother personally told me.  So she sent me a photograph of her and her son and you could tell that he's all puffy and he doesn't have much hair and that's the effects of chemo. I got a picture from her about a month ago and you wouldn't know that it was the same child.

Elder        That's wonderful.

Dan  You wouldn't know it's the same child.  And he's “cancer’-free living a normal life.  Now, the only variable... in his intake of nutrients, intake of drugs, pharmaceuticals, and the only variable was to drink our water.  Which is nothing but pure water.  Pure, clean water.  With virtually no chemical adulteration.  There's nothing added to that water except information at the quantum state.  And within two and a half months this kid shows up cancer-free and his mother told me that he probably had a month, and maybe two months at the outside to live.  They were losing him.  This is what... this is an example of what you can do with water.

Elder I understand and I have a testimony myself about The Water, Dan.  Most of it is anecdotal as far as evidence and there really is at this point in time of man's understanding no way to measure or give any empirical data that would support it.  It's just that as they say, the proof is in the pudding.

Dan  The proof is in the pudding, yes.  It's... and you're right, it's all anecdotal.  I can make no claims and won't make any claims.  The one claim that I can make legally and safely is that according to the medical profession water is an essential nutrient.  You can only live for about a week without water.  You don't dare go without water.  Doctors are encouraging people to drink a lot of water every day.  They're telling us to drink eight glasses or more of water and the reason why we have to drink that much water, and there's no way eight or 100 glasses of ordinary water is going to hydrate you, it's in a very low quantum or molecular spin state and it can't hydrate you... this water you can completely hydrate on 2-3 eight-ounce glasses a day.  So you can do what your doctor is recommending, which is to hydrate, he's telling you to drink water to hydrate.  But the problem is he doesn't realize that there's no way you can hydrate on eight ounce... on 8 eight-ounce glasses of normal water a day.  You couldn't hydrate drinking a 55-gallon drum.  You will not hydrate.  There are not enough nano-size particles in that water to hydrate you.  But if you drink water that is all sub microns, you can hydrate on 2-3 eight-ounce glasses a day.  That's what you call efficiency.

        So the whole problem was to take water, which is already an essential nutrient, make it a more efficient hydrating agent, and put information into water that the body would use like nutrient to effect its own healing and repair.

Elder I've been on The Water for almost a year, Dan, and I've gone through some of the changes or the upgrades in The Water and I can remember at each of those changes or upgrades, I would have a new healing crisis as if something definitely was changed in The Water that cleared up another issue and my meter was a detox headache and then again was this feeling of well-being in the sense of my heart.  I've noticed that my heart, my blood pressure as far as looking at something measurably that I can look at, I can see that my blood pressure that has been 158/24 and the numbers would be closer together, for the first time in several years my bottom number for the first time has gone up to over 70.  It's been up to 73, 74... like for example, 121/73.  And this has only happened... the only change that I have done to get that effect is by drinking The Water.  I've noticed that there was some energies put into The Water that had to deal with body megahertz there was a change.  When there were upgrades that were dealing with body millivoltage I got a different effect and a healing crisis effect.  As I understand it, and a question to you, Dan, was there something ever done, even though that you learned that DNA doesn't necessarily have the effects that some people might think it has, is there something that The Water might have had an effect on or that you have put into The Water that affects reconstruction of DNA?

Dan  Yeah.  We don't believe that DNA is at any point in time cut in stone.  We believe that DNA is alterable.  If DNA is degradable... look at it in the inverse relationship.  Can you repair damage?  Why not.  If you can degrade DNA, can you repair it?  I don't know why you can't.  We have certain energies in The Water ... now in the beginning of this project we had I think a fundamentally wrong understanding that what we were putting into The Water were frequencies.  They go beyond frequencies.  We're now beginning to realize that they are information-carrying codes.  They are codes that carry vast amounts of information.   And there's no doubt that an organism that is as complex as the human organism is going to need a lot of information to operate correctly.  But we're finding that the information in these fields, these strange attractor fields, is shifting out of phase.  And that it shifts out phase it's no longer available to the cells in an accurate form.  We've even found information that's shifted in a maximal sense 180 degrees.  You can only go 180 degrees out of phase.  That's as far as you can go.  We've found people with information shifted that far out of phase with serious health challenges.

        And imagine, Elder, if I had a pane of glass, a real clear, high quality pane of glass and I had a bunch of information etched onto the glass and you're looking at it straight on and I began to rotate it... well it's harder and harder to read that information.  If I rotate it 90 degrees it's completely unavailable to you.  But if I continue to rotate it beyond 90 degrees... you're getting the inverse relationship of the proper instruction.  You're getting the instruction in reverse.  That's what's happening in these fields, these information fields.

Elder And this is related to illness, emotions...

Dan  This is primarily I believe related to emotional, psychological, spiritual.  I think that they are the primary precursor to most serious physical problems.  There are other things that happen.  There is chemical toxicity.  There's exposure to electromagnetic energy that's harmful, that will say... unbalance the autonomic nervous system.  There is just any number of things that's going wrong.  But all of these things are having an impact on the information in the fields.  The cell sits there and it's interfacing with this energy field and it's depending on the information.  It's like a computer program.  Tell me how everything in this very complex structure operates.  Not only how it operates correctly, but in sequence.  And if it can't get that information then the cells begin to replicate improperly.  The cells can actually be altered to the point of becoming the kind of cell that will eat you alive.  We call that cancer.  So the cell is dependent on information.  A constant flow of correct, accurate information.  Was it encoded in the field?  It's not in the DNA.  Becker realized that.  It can't possibly all be in DNA.  It couldn't... there's no, by any stretch of the imagination there's no way DNA could carry that much information.  It's encoded in a field.

        And for many, many centuries people have known about this energy field around humans.  All living organisms, even plants, have what we call the aura.  You can photograph it with Kirlian photography.  Some people can see it.  You're looking at a hyper-dimensional field.  You're looking at a form of light in its virtual state, photon in nature.  The fields are hyper-dimensional.  They're encoded with incredible amounts of information and without them the cell can't live.  It's a perfect symbiosis.  Without the field the cell can't live.  Without the cell the field can't be supported.

Elder So the light from the laser takes information from another dimension maybe and puts it into this dimension in the water and then pumping the water into us brings this information into our bodies.  Would that be accurate or how would you describe that?

Dan        Somewhat accurate.  In reality we're taking hyper-dimensional information or energy and we're using it to manipulate water in a quantum thermodynamic sense.  In other words, we're changing the space around the particles in the water.  And the particles are... actually answer to the structure of space.  See, in physics we say that matter... there's two things we've identified.  Well, actually there's three now.  We used to identify two things in the Universe--matter and energy.  Now some of the world's top evolutionary biologists are recognizing a third thing.  Evidence for intelligence.  Prior intelligence.  Intelligence that had to exist before these structures came into existence.  They're too complex to build themselves.  Prior intelligence.  So now you've got three things.

        So matter tells space how to bend.  How to curve.  In turn, space tells matter how to move and how to behave.  It's a symbiotic dance between the two.  If I can take and structure space around the particles they will literally tell the particles how to move, how to behave, how to structure themselves.

Elder It seems like I've read recently of some discoveries regarding space where they have found actual... anti-matter or some other form of material.  I don't know if that's... I was going to say material but something of substance in space that fills up space in a sense.  And it's not measurable as far as their understanding until recently where they're beginning to understand what you're talking about--that third form.

Dan  Yeah, some people refer to it as zero point energy.  Some refer to it as the space matrix.  I prefer the term virtual particle flux field.  The vacuum... virtual vacuum particle flux field.  Because space itself or vacuum is an incredibly dense, unimaginably dense medium of particles - virtual particles that blipping into existence and going back out of existence almost as soon as they come into existence.  It's a flux.  And particles of a number of different masses, energy levels, all going faster than the speed of light.  All with negative energy, all going backwards in time.  All falling backwards in time.  There has to be a point where there is an interface or there is a point we call the point of bifurcation between our physical world where everything is falling forward in time and the realm from which everything, all reality manifests itself.  The vacuum.  Where everything is falling backwards in time.  And you have to understand that such a point of bifurcation... the point of contact exists and those of us who are working with theoretical physics, at least I for one, have realized that I can build a device that finds that point of bifurcation.

Elder How do you say that?

Dan        Bifurcation.

Elder And what does that mean?  For those of us who don't understand the term.

Dan  Well, bi meaning two.  Here's the point of contact between two realities.  In other words, Dr. Bill Tiller from Stanford University talks about... see, we live in a very, very gently curved space time realm where we recognize say three spatial dimensions.  You've got length, you've got width and you've got height.  So the standard, say vector analysis, you use three dimensions.  Right?  You have to have three points.  Okay.  That doesn't hold true in hyper-dimension.  We refer to that as an inverse or reciprocal space-time realm.  All reality comes from that reciprocal space-time realm and has a way of manifesting itself as physical matter and energy definable by some kind of movement, which is capable of doing some kind of work.  The challenge in dealing with the human body is to decide what can I do for the body in the hyper-dimensional sense?  I don't have to do anything for the body in the physical sense, which is what pharmaceutical medication, tries to do.  Pharmacology is all about dealing...

Elder My understanding of pharmakon, that's from the Greek word, or pharmacy comes from the Greek word, pharmaceus, pharmakon, and my research shows it means the mixing of poisons.

Dan  Uh huh.

Elder And basically where the whole concept came from and a lot of stuff I know and like in blood pressure medications and things they use snake venom.  They're even experimenting with other venoms, like spider venoms.  For medications we're actually doing some very seriously toxic substances to deal with symptoms.  To stop symptoms going on in the body.

Dan  It's my belief, based on my years of experience, you can accomplish anything you want to if you purposely stay away from pharmacology and deal with the energetic aspects of the human organs.  If you can correct what's wrong in the field, that correction will make its way to the physical level.  The chemistry that's not doing so well will be corrected.  If you're not producing hormones you should be producing, you'll start producing them.  It's very important though to hydrate.  I don't believe any of this work is... is possible until the body is adequately hydrated.  Once the body is hydrated and that water is there... that water is there for a purpose.  And it's because you have both the physical nature and you're very hyper-dimensional in nature, you have these hyper-dimensional energy fields, you have information fields, and we call all this stuff subtle.  Well, it is subtle and to us it's immeasurable.  And in a lot of ways undetectable.  But it definitely has a profound effect on the physical aspect of man.

Elder I've noticed in my 30 years of healing arts two of the most important things that I've focused on is water and mineralization and we're trying to get something out of the minerals too, but yet you're talking about something beyond what we've been accustomed to thinking that we try to get in our diets.  Like trace minerals.  People talk about get your trace minerals, get these minerals out of this and a lot of times we have found out in studies showing that there's not enough minerals in the soil, thus we don't get them in our food.  But yet it's actually beyond that what you're talking about with the energies that we really exist upon.

Dan  Yeah.  The body will only use something in a mineral form.  It can't use a metal.  Anything metallic is poisonous to the body.  A word of caution to those that are dumping tons of colloidal silver into their system... it may be death on 700 and something different pathogens, but in the long run it will be death on you too.  Any metal, be it silver, gold or any of the elements on the periodic table is a toxin to the human system.

Elder In other words, that specific isotope of that mineral...

Dan  Yep.

Elder        ...that is in its metallic form.

Dan  But the body needs silver, but it uses an isotope that's not metallic.  The body cannot use a metallic isotope.  It will only use a pre-metallic, unstable isotope.  Why?  Because of the work the body is designed to do it can't do anything with a metal.  You see... if you think about it... the human body is a crystalline structure.  We now know that the building blocks of proteins, amino acids are crystals.  So when the amino acids come together and form a protein.  A protein is a crystalline structure.  You're made of protein, you're made of water and water in its liquid state where we call its uncondensed phase, is a crystal.  You're a crystalline structure.  What do metals do?  They rob energy from crystals.  That's why metals are toxic to you.  They suck energy from crystals.  You are a crystalline structure.

        Now... these elements in their pre-metallic, unstable form, their true mineral form, don't rob energy.  They contribute energy.

Elder And these are the isotopes that you were talking about earlier today.  Are measurable.

Dan  Uh huh.

Elder That we can see that has a certain amount of protons, neutrons and electrons.

Dan  Yeah.  And since the isotopes we need just can't be found in our agricultural soils, as a rule, they're generally not there.  You can find them here and there, but as a rule you've been growing wheat on the same land for generations... whatever that wheat was designed to take out of the soil for the mammal kingdom has been long since depleted.  But the minerals... there are minerals in that soil and that plant will grow and it will do fine because it doesn't use the same isotopes you and I use.  We have a need for very specific isotopes.  The plants, if the isotope is in the soil, it will pull it into the root system and guess what that metal would do?  It would energize the water in the plant.  That's why dry herbs are a bad idea.  You need to be getting things in a liquid form, as a tincture, if you're going to take substances of that nature.

Elder        That's why essential oils seem to be so much better.

Dan  Yes.

Elder        Because you're getting them in a liquid form...

Dan        That's right.  Directly distilled.  The blood stream is a plant.

Elder And there's still some water in that to make it oil.  There's still some water content to some degree in an essential oil.

Dan  Uh huh.  So... we found the best delivery system by far is water.  Because all of these unstable isotopes... water picks up on that energy very well.  It's very sensitive to it.  I'm not sure that's an accident either.

Elder I've used monatomic elements, separate monatomic elements in water to get mineralized.  What is the advantage of getting this form that you're talking about, the immeasurable energy form of the mineral or information? I'm not sure how to describe it... I'll go ahead and let you take it from there.

Dan  I was sent a sample of a product that was supposed to contain elements in the ORME state.  My partner and I analyzed it.  We couldn't find the elements in the ORME state that were in there.  But it did contain... the most complex part of the mineral equation is calcium.  The body actually needs calcium operating off of seven different frequencies.  You'll find isotopes that have frequency subsets.  They all have the same... the same isotope will exist in different frequencies.  There is a slight variation.  Calcium... the calcium used in your teeth is not the same calcium used in your bones.  And there is different calcium yet used by the central nervous system, so on and so forth.  So some of these calcium´s on the market, for instance, coral calcium actually contains one correct frequency of the seven frequencies of calcium that are needed by the human body.  It contains the correct one.  The product that we ordered that was supposed to contain the element in the ORME state... contained one correct isotope of calcium and it contained the correct isotope of indium.  Indium 125.  So a person was actually getting two correct isotopes of two essential elements.

Elder So they were doing better off than they were before.

Dan  Yeah.

Elder And they did get some beneficial things.

Dan        Absolutely.

Elder Just because of that.

Dan  Yep.  If you expose the body to some correct isotopes, it will take to it like a duck to water.  It's so starved for minerals that when it gets the right minerals it doesn't have to expend any energy at all in trying to convert the isotope to the right one.  The body is trying to do that and it's an energy depleter and that process is only about 10 percent competent.

Elder Dan, get back to that glass view again.

Dan        Metaphor or analogy.

Elder Yeah.  It seems like a very good analogy, and those that are reading or listening can then see how things get turned around, the information gets turned around.  It gets turned around in our bodies and it's reflected in different physical symptoms and they're also tied to... physical anomalies and emotional anomalies are also reflectively seen in this information too.  How have you gone about... so far I understand that you have fed information in with The Water that helps feed in, but how does this reverse?  Or does it reverse... speak to that.  As far as reversing this image that's being reversed already or has been... it starts out okay in initial information at the beginning, when you have good information, most of us as far as when we're born, but yet things somehow over time and in some of us I think we even inherit some of the energy from our parents... but this information gets turned around and it's reflected in these physical symptoms or abnormalities, whatever you want to call it, in our bodies and in our emotional frame of reference.  So speak to that if you would.

Dan  Okay.  When we're conceived we're the product of the information in two fields.  The mother and the father.  But the father in himself is the product of the information in two fields and those people, those two people are the product of ... you see how this all funnels into one person?  All the errors and defects in generations past are coming forward, being funneled into this fetus.  From both sides of the family, the mother and the father.  So when you're born you're a mess.  Some people are born with horrible deformities.  That's information that's just completely in error in the field.  True story... like a firsthand testimonial this happened to me... when they bring a little girl to me with cystic fibrosis.  She's five years old.  Elder, where do you catch a disease called cystic fibrosis?  And why her and not all the other little kids around her?  I'll tell you why.  It came through the field.  And I was amazed when I analyzed this little girl that that condition called, or particular set of symptoms we refer to as cystic fibrosis is entirely emotional.  I couldn't believe it.  This condition is entirely emotional in nature.  So I've developed something as a physicist.  It's just energetic.  It takes 20 minutes.  I did this to her on a Saturday afternoon and the next morning she was symptom-free and she's been symptom-free for over a year and a half.

Elder        Amazing.

Dan        Now... what happened?  She had a very severe energy field distortion.  What did I do?  Just erased it.  Canceled it.  You can do that with waveform energy.  You can cancel waves with other waves.  Okay.  It's very simple to do.  But... all of us are the product of a lot of distortion and then we accumulate our own damage.  Through exposure to emotional trauma.  Through physical damage.  Accidents.  Cuts, abrasions, breakage of bones, all that damage goes into the field.  Every time we're damaged physically or emotionally or psychologically the damage goes in the field and stays there.  It's a permanent feature.  So the challenge was... everyone's approach... everyone who ever lived is... the body needs this to be healthy.  That's true.  But the body also needs to get rid of a bunch of stuff to be healthy.  We've got to go both ways.

Elder So we pick up information from our parents and then, you know, like... there might be no history of a particular so-called named ailment, it could have been that the mother was around another... some stimulus or something in the environment that wasn't necessarily in her or in other words, her field or her information carried, or fathers, it could be something completely extraneous of that that could have affected the child and he was starting out born with a deficiency or problem and it wasn't related to the parents, then when the child is born we pick up information in our environment and we continue through... and it continues to either better or worsen that condition.

Dan        Right.

Elder Or a condition.

Dan  The medical field will try to attribute all of these things to defects in the genes.  To genetic damage.  What if the genetic damage occurs because the damage was in the field first?  What if the DNA, what if your genetics is simply a reflection of the damage in the fields?  Of the information in the field?  The integrity of the information in the field.  If you correct that, if you could find say, the disease cystic fibrosis as a defect in the genetic code and all of a sudden you could correct the field damage, would that defect in the genetic code disappear?  Theoretically, yes.

Elder Well, we see many instances and it's documented that people have, shall we say, put in another code into their system.  I like to refer to it as prayer.  We pray.  I pray and I believe and I believe my body is going to change and my body changes.  We see countless, numerous cases where people decide to change that field.  Or they change that information and it's similar to what apparently goes on with this information that you are using with The Water or the laser.  It's putting that information in and as I understand with the latest development, if you want to elaborate on that some, you have actually got to this point where you can take some of this information out.

Dan  Yeah.

Elder That goes in.  That a lot of us in our efforts to pray or meditate on these other various forms of super-conscious work that we do... this is happening with the laser light and this new development that you have.  Could you elaborate on that some?

Dan  Okay.  Well, I got involved with my partner two and a half years ago, started working on The Water .  He was working with water and putting the isotope frequencies in.  And then he found out I was putting water in a high molecular spin state.  He wondered how would these work together.  Would they work together?  Do they belong together?  Well, of course they do.  It's like a hand in a glove.  These technologies are made for each other.  But initially The Water contained one kind of waveform.  If in our world something is what we call, sign wave, which is also referred to as a transverse wave, in the reciprocal or inverse space-time realm that will be an impulse wave.  And if it's an impulse wave in our gently curved space time realm, then the inverse or reciprocal it will be a sign wave.  So our Water contains transverse or sign/reciprocal wave.  Or, excuse me, impulse wave.  I meant to say impulse wave.

        Later on, I figured out that I could get water to hold onto a wave that was discovered by let's say, Nikola Tesla.  He firmly believed that electromagnetic energy was not a transverse wave.  It's what you call a longitudinal wave.  It was the same as a sound wave through atmosphere.  I realized that I could get The Water to hold onto a transverse wave.  Or excuse me, a longitudinal wave.  So... in the beginning if you froze our Water solid most of the information I put in, in fact, all the information my laser puts in would be destroyed.  Some of Lloyd's information will survive freezing.  The other thing that would wipe out all the energy was microwave.  And if you stored The Water in a container, say a plastic container made of a plastic that was too soft it would simply absorb and dissipate the energy and it would kill the energies within The Water within about 24 hours.

        So when I succeeded in putting the longitudinal wave discovered by Nikola Tesla into The Water, I put it in there in the ultraviolet, the visible ultraviolet particle of the spectrum.  The interesting thing that came out of this was that we could freeze The Water and not lose any of the energy.  So what was happening is the energies would climb onto the back of the longitudinal wave.  They would modulate themselves onto the longitudinal wave just the same way you would modulate an FM signal.  Where you have a frequency modulation of a particular frequency carrier.  And they'll stay modulated onto the longitudinal wave in the condensed phase of water, which is ice, and then when it melts and goes back into the uncondensed phase in water it crawls off the longitudinal wave and goes back with The Water.  Okay.

        So now, we've got the water carrying the longitudinal wave and because of that we were able to put the Schumann resonance in The Water.  The Schumann resonance of 7.83 is being carried by the longitudinal wave.  So you're actually benefiting from the Schumann resonance by drinking The Water.  As well as some other things.  Later on I realized there was another wave that I could put into The Water which would give it the two-way aspect of being able to not only put nutrients and energy in that's beneficial, but take bad energy out.  So you have two kinds of waves or energies.  You have consonant waves and you have dissonant waves.  All these bad energies in the field that's dissonant waves.  We have to be able to get those out.

        I realized that the analogy would be to imagine you could grab with your hands and ripe open the fabric of space time and you look in there and there's an energy that's incredibly beneficial.  There is only one way to get it out.  You have to develop a very special laser, which I did.  So I conceived of the laser a little over two years ago, began doing theoretical work.  I worked like Tesla.  I work in my head.  I finally after about six months to eight months, I figured out, yeah, this is going to work.  I went to work on the laser and I finally finished it on the 16th of December of 2003.  I exposed water to the energy and sure enough, now water is carrying the fifth kind of waveform.  I called it an expanded proxy wave.  And this energy literally deals not with the nucleus of the atom, but it modifies the electron shell.  Now we have something that will absorb dissonant energy and take it out of the field.

        The initial reports, and admittedly, I've been drinking this water longer than anyone, it's just a couple days over a month, but the reports I'm getting back from people is that it has the ability to do exactly what I theoretically thought that it would do.  And the initial reports are that, yeah, it's taking dissonant energy out of the field and giving the body additional capabilities in terms of normalization of function.  The body can never totally normalize its function if the field information is corrupted.  Just like a computer file that's corrupted.  If that file is corrupted, what are you going to get out of that file that's useful?  Not a whole lot. And it's the same way with the information fields.

Elder When you say take it out, Dan is it... could I be correct in stating that maybe it frees up the energies in the body so that that pane of glass goes back with that information and reverses back to its normal or...

Dan        Okay... it takes... first of all, it takes energy that shouldn't be there and cancels it.

Elder It cancels the energy?

Dan  It cancels it.  The energy that is phase-shifted in the field it begins to shift back into phase.  Correct phase.  So that that information is accurately interfacing with the cells and the countless number of functions that go on inside the cell to keep it healthy and keep it replicating properly.  So all of these molecular machines inside the cell that perform all of these myriad functions, they all need a program to tell them what to do.  They don't inherently know it.  They're simply made of quantum stuff but they need a program to tell them what to do.  And that program is in the field.  So everything in that cell, all of those myriad functions, and it happens quite rapidly.  I've seen photographs taken of DNA.  DNA doesn't just lie there, it's always wiggling and jiggling and moving.  And when that DNA is opened up so that you can replicate a protein, it happens very rapidly, and then it's closed back up again.  Those machines move at a high rate of speed and with precision and they need a program to do it.  And people don't understand.  The program file is corrupted, people.  That's why we're dying so fast.  The most sophisticated organism in the Universe and we don't live as long as a sea turtle.  There's something wrong here.

        And all of our approaches up until now to make man live longer, oh, we've got to deal with free radical pathology.  Oh, the telemere caps on the end of the DNA strands are degrading.  That's what's causing aging.  Oh no, declining hormone levels causes aging.  No, no, no, those are all symptomatic of one thing.  Accelerated entropy.  Thermodynamics.  Aging is a thermodynamics problem, people.  It's not a chemistry problem.  It's a thermodynamics problem.  Chemistry is simply symptomatic of that.  And one of the major problems is dehydration.  Water is crucial to this organism and you've got to get water into those cells.  And you can't do it drinking the normal drinking water in this country.  You can't hydrate on it.  Everyone that has ever come to me in over 22 years is dehydrated and some of those people told me they were drinking a gallon and a half to two gallons of water a day.  And they lived by the bathroom door.  They had to pee constantly.  I've tried drinking 8-10 glasses of water a day and all I did was pee.  Something's wrong.  It's not being absorbed.  It's just simply passing through the kidneys and you're wearing your kidneys out.  People who drink The Water notice they don't urinate as often.  You don't have to when The Water is being absorbed and utilized.

Elder I have noticed that but I do have... I have noticed that when I do have to go I better...

Dan  Yeah, that's... (Both laugh)

Elder Get there as fast as I can.

Dan  Yeah.

Elder One of the other things that I noticed with The Water too, Dan, I had some colonics done, two colonics done a few weeks ago and they couldn't find any parasites at all in my body.  And I felt like I was going to get blown up like a balloon because she was really... the lady that was doing it was trying very hard to find something... she couldn't even find any color coming from the cecum area of the colon.  And she was most impressed by that and I told her the only thing I've done in the last several months is The Water.  I mean, I even stopped doing some of my other products just so I could get some accurate, you know, analysis of what The Water was doing to my body.  But have you heard any anecdotes regarding the parasites and The Water yourself?

Dan  No, I really honestly, aside from you can't say that I have.  But I notice working with people the years that sometimes they'll pass parasites and they're not even conscious of it.

Elder Well, we're not normally looking for those sorts of things when we're at that business.

Dan  I... I did have a woman in Helena... she had two tapeworms crawl out of her in the bathtub.

Elder After drinking The Water?

Dan  No.  It had nothing to do with The Water.  This was on herbs.

Elder Oh.  Oh, okay.

Dan  This was walnut and black garlic.  Or... black walnut and garlic.

Elder        Right.

Dan  She had two tapeworms crawling out in the bathtub.  Oh, you know, proximally body temperature, water and they got tired of the herbs and left.  That was the end of her headache problem.  She had extraordinary headaches.  She had migraines.  She had these tapeworms passing back and forth keeping the illiocecal valve open and just poisoning her to death and that was the end of the problem when she got rid of the tapeworms.  But this same thing that I did for this little girl with the cystic fibrosis, I did on a man who teaches at Weaver State University, he's a professor down there, and he noticed a couple days later he was passing a lot of worms in his stool.  People will pass parasites all the time and they're not conscious of it.  But you're right; parasites don't particularly like the energy in this Water.  They tend to thrive in lower energy situations.  So I can't make any claims.  I can't say The Water will get rid of parasites, but if you are... were I in the position I'm in where all this information comes in from people on The Water... just unbelievable things are happening.

Elder Well, I agree, Dan.  To those that might be listening or reading about this interview, we're not in any way, shape or form making any scientific or medical claims.  This is basically just for research purposes only.  For educational purposes only and historical.  I think this is a very historical thing that you have discovered and Lloyd are working together on The Water that's made a difference in my life and has greatly affected other people's lives.  I'm, to say the least, very thankful to have been able to have The Water and to be able to share it with others.  And I appreciate the time that you've given us today and I don't know there may be some other things you want to cover before we close.

Dan  I was going to say that in the beginning, when my partner started this project, he set out to create the world's ultimate mineral supplement.  Which would be just water with virtually no minerals in it... nothing but the waveform analogs.  And he did it because he had a heart attack.  He has four stints installed in his heart.  And the problem of the deposition of plaque in the arteries was not going away and he realized it would get him sooner or later.  So because of his knowledge of isotopes, some of them derived from a friend who is a nuclear engineer, and the fact that he could even make metallic gold appear in water or platinum or palladium... he wondered if he could solve his own problem with water.  So he went to work on the problem and figured out that if he put the energy of Indium 125 into The Water it would get rid of his particular type of plaque.

        His plaque was not based on calcium.  It was based on aluminum phosphate.  His coronary arteries were plugging with aluminum phosphate, as was the carotid artery.  And if you image the brain with someone with Alzheimer's you'll see a plaque.  That's aluminum phosphate.  The energy of Indium 125 goes and gets into the bloodstream.  The system absorbs the water into the bloodstream, that energy just makes that plaque go back in the solution and just very, very slowly, but carefully and cautiously exits the system.  Within four weeks his arteries are clean as a whistle.  He said, 'If I can do this with one correct isotope energy in water, what can I do if I had all of the correct isotope energies I need in The Water ?'  So that's what he set out to do.

        When I caught up with him he was still missing a few isotopes--I brought some of them to his attention, but we completed the isotope regime, we'll call it, so that we had all the correct mineral isotopes the body needs in The Water.  Then we found out with my laser we could put a lot more information into The Water.

Elder So you mean by putting the correct mineral isotopes then the energies of those particular mineral isotopes... the energies...in other words, it's not necessarily the measurable isotopes of those particular minerals that you're talking about going into v but the energy.

Dan  Yeah, they're not.

Elder It's the energies of those particular isotopes that you and Lloyd are putting into The Water.  You know what you're putting in because of the way you constructed the information.  You know what you're doing as far as putting it in but as far as anybody being able to measure that... there's no way at this time for... science has not progressed far enough to actually measure those energies at this time.

Dan        That's true.  At first, you see, when I first got involved with Lloyd and this project, I was confused.  And I should have been the one person that wasn't confused.  Well, I actually thought he had actual atoms and molecules of these isotopes in The Water.  And then he'd come to realize and he said, 'No, it's all energy, Dan.  You don't need an atom or a molecule.  As long as you get the energy in water it's all the body needs.  It's absolutely fine with that.'  That was a leap of not faith... but it was a stretch of the imagination for me to realize now, hold it, do you mean we're going to supply all of the body's mineral needs with nothing but that frequency in water?  Yes.  That's what is hard to grasp.  People think, oh, you must have these minerals in there as atoms and molecules.  No, we don't.  They're in there as the energy.  As the frequency of that isotope.

        Now, when I finally came to grasps with that fact, I realized it was a lot easier for me to come to terms with it than someone who doesn't have a physics background.  It's a real stretch for somebody who is outside of that particular field of endeavor.  Can you imagine how the average individual who may be a teacher or an elementary school teacher or be a cement truck driver or a carpenter, plumber, anything... how hard it is for them to grasp that concept?  That it's simply energy.  We do not adulterate The Water.  It's... in fact; we go look for the purest water we can find as a base for this.  Absolutely the purest water we can find.  We take that water, we dechlorinate it, but by law we have to ozonate it.  So trust me, there's nothing alive in that water.  There are no organisms.

        We sent our water to the state of Utah in Salt Lake.  It costs us something like $3,000 to have our water checked and they have extremely stringent standards.  We met every one of their standards.  Passed with flying colors.  Incredibly pure water.  We've taken the chlorine out, we've ozonated it and the ozone only sticks around for a short period of time.  It dissipates, it's gone.  Then we run it through an ionizer.  We adjust the pH and we take the pH to an ideal 8.5.  I think every authority out there will tell you the ideal pH range for water would be about 8.4 to 8.6.  So we bring it right into the 8.5 range.  That's all we do to The Water.  Everything else in The Water is energy.  Immeasurable, undetectable, unquantifiable, unqualifiable.  Unless you know what you're doing.  Unless you have the proprietary means to do it, which we do.  Otherwise, how do we know what we've got in The Water?  How do we know we've got anything in The Water?

        So when we're done people drink this Water.  What are they drinking?  Just pure water.  It's very hydrating.  They find that they don't have to drink tons of water.  They feel good on 2-3 eight-ounce glasses a day.  They feel satisfied.  People that had an unbelievable thirst from water, they couldn't quench it, started drinking this, 2-3 eight-ounce glasses a day, they don't even think about drinking more water.

Elder One of the reasons why I like to use it... promoting it for Range Guide expeditions and such is because you're out in the wild... you want to conserve water as much as possible and I find that I don't have to drink no where near as much water when I drink this Water.  Although I'm sure I could probably do better and stretch it out further if I did mix it and probably be preferable if I did use more alkaline water so it will keep that pH level.

Dan  Yeah.

Elder Dan, a lot of this is getting into supernatural to me.  And I'm trying to comprehend.   I think people are gravitating more towards believing and understanding that there are a lot of supernatural things in this world despite what science has tried to tell us doesn't exist.  And because of the evidence of it.  A lot of us with the different things that we're trying to do with ORMEs and elixirs and other products to raise consciousness, meditate to raise consciousness, we're looking at super-consciousness, we're looking at our conscious state of being and our subconscious state of being as far as how the body functions.  And I've noticed since I've been drinking The Water that I feel like I have a greater resistance to those things that are in a conscious way detrimental to me.

Dan        Negative.

Elder Yeah, negative is maybe a word I could use for it.  But definitely lower consciousness.  And we're all trying to achieve I think with these different things a level so that we're getting more into a super-conscious state of existing, thinking.  I notice a lot of children these days, more and more children are exhibiting attributes of higher consciousness at a very early age.  I think it might have to do with the time we're living in.  Where we're at in the Universe, in our galaxy what's going on.  Of course, people will go in further talking about what Mayans talk about in this era that we're moving into.  Do you have any comments regarding these sorts of issues or discussions?

Dan  Well, to the general public... quantum physics and quantum mechanics have always been supernatural.  It's incredibly difficult to comprehend, to understand.  Along came certain writers that began to take these ideas and do their best to bring them down to level of most people, to make them comprehensible.  Fritjof Capra out there in Berkeley, UC Berkeley, did an excellent job when he wrote the book, "The Tao of Physics."  Began to popularize the idea that maybe the entire world around us is a phenomenon created by our paying attention to it.  Maybe it's only there because we are observing it.  That's an idea that developed some time ago.  It seems that maybe things only exist because they're either being measured or they're being observed.  In other words, everything has a wave function.  It doesn't become real until you collapse that wave function.  In they're not exactly sure what collapses the wave function.  But I agree that the Universe is a carefully constructed illusion.  Everything out there is just a wave phenomenon.  Particles of mass or wave packets.

        You think about my partner making gold on the frequencies in water.  What's he doing?  Quantum physics.  What we call the super-positioning of waves.  If you get the right complement of waves according to the Fourier transform equation, it will define the form of anything in the Universe.  So everything has a form, which is just a manifestation of how vacuum space comes together.  How it puts waves together.  That's what creates our whole reality.  Without it there is no reality.  So, if you begin to think in terms of everything just being a manifestation of energy, a manifestation of waves, then it also must occur to you that if there's a problem to solve there's more than one way to solve the problem.  There may be multiple ways of solving it.  Multiple approaches.  Some not as valid as others.  Some not as effective as others, but there are multiple ways of doing them.

        Look at the countless numbers of incredibly intelligent people who have realized over the years and some, a lot of them with medical degrees, that the great advances in the future are going to come not in the allopathic medicine.  They're going to come from alternative sources and they're going to come from alternative approaches.  And that's all this is.  It's an alternative way.  It's the way I've chosen and my partner has chosen to look at the way the body functions, what the body's needs are, what the body's problems are, and how to go about solving those problems.  And we certainly don't, by any stretch of the imagination, practice medicine.  We don't touch medicine.  We don't touch chemistry with a ten-foot pole.  We stay as far away from it as we can.  That's their realm.  By law that's their realm.  And because of what I know I wouldn't want to get involved in their realm if they gave me all the money on earth.  There's no future in it.  Every drug man has ever produced is a poison.  Virtually every drug ever produced is a poison.  In fact, I'll go you one further.  In the... what we call the New Testament of the Bible that tells Christians to stay away from spiritism, in the Greek language do you know what word was translated into spiritism?  Pharmakeia.

Elder        Pharmacon?

Dan  Did you know that?

Elder        Pharmacon is poison.

Dan  Yes. Druggery. Literally druggery.

Elder        Right.

Dan        Mankind has used drugs for centuries.  They're coming from pre-Biblical times.  But they're not the modality that's going to get the best results, in my opinion.  And until they abolish the Constitution I'm guaranteed an opinion.

Elder        Guaranteed.

Dan  Yeah.  And the real future of this thing is in alternative.  It's in a holistic approach.  You talk about a true holistic approach where you have to deal with all the aspects of the human nature... there's only one way I know how to do it effectively and that's with water.  I can go to every level.  The spiritual, the emotional, the mental and the physical with one substance.  Water.  You can't do that with anything else.  It's impossible.  As you said earlier on in our discussion, you can make changes consciously just by changing the way you think.  It makes a huge difference in your level health and well-being.  But you can only so far through conscious effort.  There are some things that are wrong with us that are not accessible through conscious effort.  No amount of meditating or thinking will ever change them or ever be able to reach down to that level and pull those problems out.  It's going to take another approach and I think the approach that we've taken is on the right track.

        And I'm not saying this Water is done yet.  I'm not saying it's a finished product.  I see improvements coming already.  But the new wave form that I put out in The Water on the 16th of December was a major step forward.  An absolutely major step.  I don't know if there will ever be another step forward in The Water technology that will be as significant as that one.  But there will be little steps and that's been the history of the whole project.  Constantly improving The Water.  As soon as I would make an improvement, my partner would have made... it was always out of date.  You could never find the latest version of v.  There was no such thing as the latest version.  Now we're getting to the point where I think we're getting close to the last and final version of The Water but I can't say when that will be.  I'm still making little improvements and I see room for improvements.  But I depend on people like you to bring me information that will trigger the right querying process in my mind so that I can determine whether or not there's application to The Water. Is there application of the human organism to some other modality other than The Water?  I'm always thinking on this.  So this is an ongoing story.  This isn't the end of it.

Elder This is not the end of it.  Well, I guess that would be a good point to conclude, Dan.  It's been a pleasure to speak with you, ask all these questions we've asked today and go into this.  I know that it might very well generate a lot more questions and a lot more study and investigation, which is what we want to do.  It's not always the answers that we always find that is important or the most important thing, but the questions that we ask.  And I think you guys are on the right track with asking the right questions and you're getting some good answers and it's quite evident with what we are seeing with The Water and what I've experienced and what I've... all the people, most everyone that I've shared The Water with they've had a very positive experience.  Sometimes it wasn't a health, you know, a necessarily a good feeling because a lot of people do not understand that there is a healing crisis when we're changing and sometimes with this Water it causes a quick change depending on how much you do and how fast you do.  So each individual should start out with a little bit and work up to what they can handle as far as what changes are being made.  But that's all part of going back through those doors in time.  Herring's Law of Cure.  You heal from the head down, from the inside out in reverse order of the symptoms as they occur.

        I've noticed that I've gone through symptoms in my past, feelings that reminded me.  I can remember the day when I had these feelings and pains in certain parts of my body that I've been going through in a short period of time.  A year.  Which is really a short period of time when you're looking at almost 50 that I've almost completely.

Dan  This is what we would call regression phenomenon.

Elder        Regression phenomenon?

Dan  Yes.  That's right.  That's the body's way of healing.  It's got to go back to the problem again.  As it's removing it from the field you'll experience it... for a short period of time and maybe quite intensely, but it doesn't last very long.

Elder Well, I think we'll complete it here. Dan, thanks so much for your time today and look forward to talking to you again in the near future.

[End of Interview]

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